KuttyJoe:One difference. I'm telling the truth. You're not.
Hey I believe you can't make Corel work. After reading your posts and entertaing myself by screwing with you I'm sure you have issues. LOL!
KuttyJoe:Attacking the user seems to be your specialty
Only those deserving os such special attention. I'll ask again please post a file and detaile dinstructions an i'll try and help you.
KuttyJoe:Maybe that's been my problem since 1993 or 1994 when I first started with Corel products
I'm sure some people wander through oblivian forever. Are you ever going to post a file or am I going to grow old an die waitng and laughing?
Still another post from you wasting time and not one file posted and any details in which anyone can use to help you. This is too much fun, I must now return to writing about spot colors.
David Milisock
Jeff Harrison:Curious... it's clear you're not happy with Corel products, but do you use them anyway for some processes or are you forced to for work reasons (such as shop you work at using Draw as main suite)?
Not that this has any relevance to this subject, but back in the 90's I ran first my own business based on Corel Draw, then later a print shop art dept, but these days I generally use it to to supplement other graphic applications. Things that I feel Draw is particularly good at, I'll jump in and do some particular operations, then export back to one of the other graphic applications that I use primarily. So I'm still using it, but no longer depending on it. Corel Draw had some great innovative ideas that Adobe has relentlessly mined over the years, but some things are still exclusive to Corel Draw. That's why it is still valuable to me. I'm not here looking for how to fix it. I'm just agreeing with someone else who made a comment about Corel Draw's lack of stability.
I see that you have put that crashing Photopaint problem behind you. That's good. No point in dwelling on it, but the other guy seems to think that you're a dumb idiot if Corel product crashes while you're using it. LOL.
Professional Color Separations.
David Milisock: KuttyJoe:One difference. I'm telling the truth. You're not. Hey I believe you can't make Corel work. After reading your posts and entertaing myself by screwing with you I'm sure you have issues. LOL! KuttyJoe:Attacking the user seems to be your specialty Only those deserving os such special attention. I'll ask again please post a file and detaile dinstructions an i'll try and help you. KuttyJoe:Maybe that's been my problem since 1993 or 1994 when I first started with Corel products I'm sure some people wander through oblivian forever. Are you ever going to post a file or am I going to grow old an die waitng and laughing? Still another post from you wasting time and not one file posted and any details in which anyone can use to help you. This is too much fun, I must now return to writing about spot colors.
Now that you see how ridiculous your comments are, you've taken a new direction to save face. LOL. You're pitifully predictable. At any rate, I've said what I had to say. And unfortunately, so have you. Can't exactly take it back now can you.
Hugh Johnson:Joe, I understand the frustration that you may have. But, being snowed in, there on the "other"coast, is no reason to rant and rave without specifying a problem or a suggestion of a solution to a problem.
Actually, I'm not ranting and raving. I simply agreed with another post about the crashing and bugginess of Corel products. It's far from ranting and raving.
Hugh Johnson:You may have found a way to crash PP, any time you wish, that does not make you a super hero, nor a nasty villain.
It doesn't make me anything, but the problem does seem to be less confined to all the systems I've used over the years, now that a single other person has experienced the same problem. Are you also diligently ignoring elephants.
Hugh Johnson:And if you shared this experience and that person told you that it was forwarded to Corel for review, you can bet that it has been looked at
Well, I doubt that, but that is also beside the point. Either way, it just isn't important other than the fact that someone else experienced it.
Hugh Johnson: Should I blame the automobile industry (specifically which company?) for the ability to crash my car?
You travel now on the same slippery slope as the other guy. There's truth and everything else is nonsense. In the end you'll have to resort to personal attacks to make your point. Why bother.
I've been using Quark, Freehand and Adobe products under Mac computers for several years (including old models such as Quadra 900, and newest such as G3, G4 and G5 computers, without CorelDRAW on those computers except on one), and also I've been using Adobe software under Windows. Since I use computers since several years, starting with the PC-XT generation, DOS, Windows 1.0, Apple II, and more, I can talk about this because is not a partial experience. I also was teacher of Adobe and Corel for years and help many people and companies to configure and use their systems.
I know that some people have problems using CorelDRAW, specially with stabilty and files that doesn't open. But I can tell you that is not exclusive for Corel, it also happens on Adobe programs, and other. Adobe programs also crashes and also causes errores, and sometimes the files doesn't open or doesn't open propiertly. Quark XPress have an auto-recovery programs, because is very common have issues with stabiity and crashes sometimes.
What programs crashes more and why? is not easy to find a good answer. For have a real answer you must have similar programs with similar configuration on the same computer or very similar computers. If you compare a powerful Mac, with a common clon PC with virus, antivirus, trojans, malware, p2p software (emule, ares, etc) of course the results wil be different. If you compare a Mac wth only a few fonts (Extensis suitcase disable all fonts on every restart) awith a Windows system with hundreds or thousands of fonts, of course the result will be different. And, if you compare experienced users and professional designers against unexperienced users.
Altough Mac users sad that their computers never crashes and they don't need Ctrl+Alt+supr, Mac computers sometimes crashes and they need to use a shortcut when ths system freezes. And sometimes, Adobe programs also crashes and cause damage to their files. DO you ever read an Adobe forum? they have the same problems than Corel users,and perhaps more.
The funny side is how each company show their problemas and solutions. Adobe found bugs and errors and publish an "update", so their users are happy, because they have an updated program with less bugs and errors. If Corel found bugs and errors and publish an update, called "ServicePack", their users are unhappy and bothered. But both are the same. For what reason do you believe that Adobe versions changes constantly? You allways have v.12.1.2, 12.1.3, 12.2.1, 12.2.2, and more... but Adobe users believe that is good and normal. But CorelDRAW users haver the same and believe that is bad
Often Adobe users claim to "sell" the idea of using all of the same company, so for compatibility and because (supposedly) are the same commands and the same interface. In practice, then not so. Fit page on the screen in Photoshop is Ctrl +0 in Indesign is Ctrl +. There are programs that hide (on Mac) with Ctrl + H and others not. In Photoshop Ctrl + D is Deselect , in Illustrator is Shift + Ctrl + A, Ctrl + D is to place an image in Indesign, Illustrator is transform again, file information in Photoshop is Alt + Ctrl + I, in Illustrator Shift + Alt + Ctrl + I ... What are so alike? Everything is relative and depends on the habit of work of each. For example, on Freehand fit to page is Ctrl+0 like Photoshop, but Illustrator however does not use the same, QuarkXPress uses Ctrl + U (Ungroup) as CorelDRAW ... so the "same" or "different" often depends on the workflow of each designer.
And if it's about the errors made for users, if you believe that Adobe users doesn't have errors you must see better, including self company promotions.I do not even want to imagine what they would say if Corel did something similar.
http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2009/06/adobe-wet-floors-are-dangerous.html
http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2008/05/how-to-cheat-in-photoshop-by-reason-of.html
Strange reflections on Photoshop
http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2008/05/photoshop-world-photoshop-user-tv.html
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/402/kb402521.html
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4292
Ariel Garaza Díaz
arielgaraza.com
Ariel:What programs crashes more and why? is not easy to find a good answer.
Excellent observation, even in test sites we see users with just God awful system stability. In my experience seperating the REAL BUG something that is just wrong in the software from USER INDUCED issues can be in some cases next to impossible remotely . Which is why i chomped on kutty, no information to go on only complaints.
What would people say if Corel's website was infected with virus from another site that was also owned by Corel? Would probably say that it isnot a serious company, and that you can not tolerate something like that. But if that happens to Adobe, is just an accident, isn't it?
http://www.sophos.com/blogs/sophoslabs/v/post/1863
What would people say if the trial version of Corel expire the next day? Surely that is unacceptable, and that programmers are useless and incapable. But if that happens to Adobe is just a curiosity.
http://www.creativepro.com/article/adobe-halts-some-software-trial-downloads
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/403/kb403598.html
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/332263
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/506/cpsid_50656.html
I don't want to say that Adobe programs are bad, or advice to don't use it. I just try to show tht not only Corel software can have problems, because some people said: "CorelDRAW allways freezes, but Adobe programs never have problems". That's not true. Adobe programs have errors and Adobe users has problems, same or more than Corel users. This is only a false advertising of Adobe, but is not real.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Adobe-InDesign-1839/InDesign-CS2-freeze-m.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.indesign.windows/browse_thread/thread/9277d8ba214d3fa5
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/332/332260.html
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.indesign.macintosh/browse_thread/thread/b0044485be67c3d4
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.indesign.windows/browse_thread/thread/1e73b37e65c05c00?pli=1
.. of course, those are only a few samples, with different programs, versions and operating systems, only for show that not only some Corel users have problems, also Adobe users can have the same problems. I know a lot of people and companies that use CorelDRAW all day for all jobs and never have problems, never freezes the program or never lost a file.
Windows Shell Integration is that it inserts certain menu items in windows menu's like the ones that pop up when using the right-click
Ariel:I know that some people have problems using CorelDRAW, specially with stabilty and files that doesn't open. But I can tell you that is not exclusive for Corel
There's not a person on God's green earth that doesn't already know that. This dispute is much simpler. There are a handful of people here who have decided that they will not allow anyone to say it without being challenged. Thus, a dispute.
Ariel: it also happens on Adobe programs, and other. Adobe programs also crashes and also causes errores, and sometimes the files doesn't open or doesn't open propiertly.
In other words, all programs are the same. It's this kind of talk that I always respond to, because I can see what you're trying to imply. But the reality is simple. Some programs are better than others. We can disagree on which and I don't make it my personal crusade to defend....anything! I use a lot of programs. When they work well for me, I will say loudly that they work well for me. When they crash, I say loudly that they crash. Life is simple.
Ariel: For have a real answer you must have similar programs with similar configuration on the same computer or very similar computers.
Wow. I can't believe you said that. It's exactly what I've been saying and what the other guy has been doing his best to not respond to. I've been using similar programs, on the very same computer since the early 90's. If one program has consistently been more stable than the other during all those machines, all those operating systems including Macs, then I logically reach the conclusion that one program must be better than the other.
Ariel:DO you ever read an Adobe forum? they have the same problems than Corel users,and perhaps more.
I spend far more time there than here, and what I tend to notice is the extreme lack of activity there, good or bad. But realistically, I don't believe I have ever, once seen a post from someone who is steaming mad and really screaming over and Adobe product "machine gun" crashing. I've seen plenty posts about small bugs which are far from the critical show stoppers surrounding Corel products. And of course, I have my own many years experience with all products being discussed. No matter what anyone else says, I know what I've experienced, and what hundreds of co-workers have experienced. So while your qualifications are fine, they are no finer than my own or anyone elses. We all use these products. Maybe you have been doing so for a year or two longer than me.
Ariel:The funny side is how each company show their problemas and solutions. Adobe found bugs and errors and publish an "update", so their users are happy, because they have an updated program with less bugs and errors. If Corel found bugs and errors and publish an update, called "ServicePack", their users are unhappy and bothered. But both are the same. For what reason do you believe that Adobe versions changes constantly? You allways have v.12.1.2, 12.1.3, 12.2.1, 12.2.2, and more... but Adobe users believe that is good and normal. But CorelDRAW users haver the same and believe that is bad
So what you're saying is, if your program was crashing all over itself, you'd feel better if they called the bug fix "update", rather than "service pack"? I mean, is that really what you're saying? Or maybe you're saying that Adobe users are this stupid, but you are so smart that you can see right through this sly smoke screen. Here's what's really going on. When an update comes from Adobe, most of the time, I have no idea why because the software is running perfectly well for me. On a Mac, I tend to almost never install the updates because it's more disruptive to work than on a PC. Why bother. The programs are running fine with no sign of even a single glitch, forget crashes. It's just not happening. So I'm never in a hurry to install any update. If I get around to it at some point, that's fine. This is not how I'm feeling about Corel service packs. A service pack from Corel is something I would actively seek out, then run through a series of tests that normally crash the program and hope really hard that the problem has been addressed. Your notion about service packs and updates is pure fantasy. Nobody is the world is stupid enough to have a program that's buggy and crashing and feel alright about it when the "update" comes. Those users are happy because the program is simply running stable. Corel users are unhappy because when they get the service pack they find that it hasn't addressed the problem that has been driving them nuts.
<Ariel> wrote in message news:77243@coreldraw.com... I know a lot of people and companies that use CorelDRAW all day for all jobs and never have problems, never freezes the program or never lost a file.
I know a lot of people and companies that use CorelDRAW all day for all jobs and never have problems, never freezes the program or never lost a file.
Jeff Harrison MacroMonster.com Daily Diversion Blog
I'm actually surprised at all the things coreldraw can do for me. I personally think the program is a bargain for what you get.
Like Jeff said "I push it pretty hard", I think I push it really hard too, and I rarely see the program crash. I've had macros that process files all day long for over a week without a crash.
I do see the vba editor crashing the program sometimes when coding, which I guess is because of all the possibilities and unavoidable coding errors during debugging.
I sure wish the vba editor had an autobackup. A many times I had to recreate hours of work because I forgot to hit save.
I was unhappy a small few times. After using ver 8 then 9,and loving it, and anxiously awaiting ver 10. Trying v10, ...Oh that was the biggest disappointment in my corelDraw history...lol
-John
PS..oh goody. Am I gonna get quoted too!
"The best thing about learning is that it never stops, and the rabbit hole will go as deep as you let it."~Johnwww.gdgmacros.com
Paul McGee St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
KuttyJoe:So what you're saying is, if your program was crashing all over itself, you'd feel better if they called the bug fix "update", rather than "service pack"? I mean, is that really what you're saying? Or maybe you're saying that Adobe users are this stupid, but you are so smart that you can see right through this sly smoke screen.
That was not what I tried to say either you missed my point or I have not explained well. Both companies found errors or upgrades for your program,s but each user receive the "update" in opposite way. Perhaps the reason is the way that each company talk about the upgrade, Adobe call it an "update" and Corel say is a "patch" or "ServicePack" and this not sound good. But whe Adobe launch an update (and launches several updates) and say that fixes severar errors and problems, the users receved it a good service of the company. When Corel do the same, most users believe that's demonstarte a bad service of the company. The difference is not who's is smart or stupid, in my humble opinion, nobody who use Adobe or Corel is stupid. The difference is about marketing and the image of each company for the users.
But is not exclusive for Adobe vs Corel, it also happens with other companies: when Mac leaves the market an entire computer model for defects in design or manufacture, users feel that the company is concerned to improve their products, but if another company do the same, they think it is a failure. And (before you say anything) I'm not against Mac, and also I'm not against Adobe. Mac computers are the most powerful machines of the history, and most ot their users say that never crashes, never freeze, never has system fails os system problems. Unfortunately, this is not true. Sometimes the system fais, freeze, you must restart or even reinstall the entire operating system. I'n no doubt is better that Windows, and I'm no doubt it has less errors than Windows. But when I hear somebody saying: "Mac never crash, never freeze" I know this is not true
Same happens with Adobe. Most people say: "Adobe never crash, never freeze" and "Corel is unstable, allways closes, allays has errors". Well, this is not true. Adobe programs also have errors, and there's a lot of user with many problems. Most of CS4 user are unhappy with this release, because don't work as good as previous versions on several computers. What I tried to say is only: "Adobe is not perfect". Yes, it's a great company, and produce great programs. And I never say that any Adobe user is stupid. But I use both (and others) for years, through different computers, versions and operating systems,and also I know a lot of people who use both, or who use only one of both. Adobe errors are generally less severe and therefore less obvious. But that not means less in quantity, and of course, not means "Adobe has not errors".
Most of the Corel users I know have not problem, any problem, with their programs, and use it all day for all kind of jobs. Only a few have problems, and most of the time the reason is outside the program: Windows errors, too much fonts, software conflicts, infections, and more. On a "clean" system the program has not problem. It not requires a lot of RAM or powerful machines, I've been using CorelDRAW on small machines and works fine. The difference is that you can work with other programs and don't notice a real difference, but with CorelDRAW you will se the difference. Some users have a new and powerful computer, and have problems, and other users have a small and old computer and the program, the same program, work fast, easy, simple, without crashes or errors. What's the difference?