For some reason I cannot write text accompanying my photo of the bees in this forum using Internet Explorer. I try Firefox:
Dear Corel Users
Firstly: I am still using Corel Photo Paint X5, because X6 won't work
with my scanner. Anyway I guess my problem is not different from what it
would be in X6.
Often when I open a well exposed colorful photo in Photo Paint the image
is loosing saturation and vibrance. It is easily visible on the screen.
When I export it as JPG again without doing any corrrections at all,
the resulting image stays that way, that is pale. As an example I have
attached the photo of a bee on some yellow flowers. On the right hand
side the original image, on the left how it looks after being exported
in Photo Paint. If it is photos of people they look pale and without
I am very frustrated I can't seem to control colors. I hope someone can
help me make the appropriate settings in Photo Paint to solve the
problem. I have tried reading about color management, but it just made
me more confused. At the moment my Preset settings are "Simulate
Erik Vestergaard:At the moment my Preset settings are "Simulate Colormanagement off".
Return to the default color management settings of Corel Photo-PAINT may be a solution.
What scanner do you use?
Does it embedd a profile? If not it works on sRGB.
Do you have a monitor profile?
I'm assuming you export as RGB correct?
Erik Vestergaard:I have tried reading about color management, but it just made me more confused
My book at www.graphictechnology.com explains color management
In the color profile try the ProPhoto RGB setting, for me this has pretty good result, especially with RAW imports.
Could also be that PHOTO-PAINT is using the monitor color profile that's installed in Windows to correct the display. Removing the association between the color profile and the monitor would be a good thing to test.
Tony Severenuk:Could also be that PHOTO-PAINT is using the monitor color profile that's installed in Windows to correct the display.
That's for sure but you cannot remove that association, what needs to be done is to make sure that PP is using the correct profile to display the image in relation to the scanner.
Thanks for all the replies. David my scanner (which is Canoscan 9000F) is not involved in the process at all! The two images uploaded to Corel Forum were created in the following way:
Digital Camera > RAW converter > Export to JPG > Screen shot (The saturated vibrant one)
Digital Camera > RAW converter > Export to JPG > Opened in Photo Paint X5 > Exported as JPG > Screenshot (The pale image)
I attach an image showing the settings within Photo Paint. It seems to be a problem with bad settings within PP X5, since the only difference in the two processes is that one image was opened in PP X5 and then exported to JPG without making any changes, whereas the better image just was used right away. Therefore I guess my monitor is not the problem here, but for completeness I can report it is a Samsung SyncMaster PX2370 with factory settings. Nothing changed.
Maybe someone can tell what settings to choose in PP X5 in order for my image to look the same (with the same saturation and vibrance for example) on screen as it does when the original JPG is viewed in the Windows 7's own builtin photoviewer?
On a major install today will reply later this evening
Erik use the default setting for CorelDRAW in the application default setting except I would suggest perceptual rendering and WCS color engine
David, in the "Default Color Management dialog" I set Color Engine to "Microsoft WCS" and Rendering Intent to "Perceptual" as you suggested. I am not sure what you mean with "use the default setting for CorelDRAW in the application default setting", because I see no button to reset to default values. The changes in the dialog settings didn't have any effect on the image on the screen, though.
I know that Color Management is a difficult issue (Gamut, color profiles, etc.). I read about it once, but didn't really understand, because no examples were given. I can understand the big problem getting the right colors when printing on simple printers or especially on professional devices in Publishing houses, because colors are looking very different on different kind of paper. I also know that there are certain colors you cannot get printed on paper and must seek compromises. What I don't understand though is why the h... colors change (on the screen) when I open a JPG image in PP X5. I attach a new example. A picture showing myself. I added a flag, because the color red changes a lot. I opened the original jpg image in Windows own Picture Viewer (or what it is called in English) and placed this window beside the window with the same file opened in PP X5. Finally I took a screenshot. Again you see the loss of saturation and vibrance in the face and the flag especially.
How do I get the image to look the same on my computer screen when viewed in Windows Picture Viewer and viewed inside PP X5?
It should be possible, since it is viewed on the same computer screen and I am not dealing with output of any kind what so ever.
I'm not sure how Windows Picture Viewer displays files (from a colour point of view) but I've tested this with PNG and GIF files I've made for websites and they always display differently in WPV from PP whatever PP settings I use. Try dragging the JPG directly into a browser and see how it displays there. If that is correct (as it has been for me with PNGs and GIFs) then I'm guessing it will be for JPGs as well. I've given up with WPV.
Note that some browsers (depending on settings) will respect embedded colour profiles and others won't.
Erik Vestergaard:How do I get the image to look the same on my computer screen when viewed in Windows Picture Viewer and viewed inside PP X5?
Ok the truth about color and applications. With the same settings and the same file professional applications like Corel Photo-PAINT, Adobe Photoshop and even lesser quality image editors like Corel PaintShop Pro will display color on the same system nearly identically. However the same test images that display identically on theses applications will display differently from these applications and on lower quality applications like fax viewerw, picture viewers and web browsers. In fact they may display differently on the picture viewer then on a web browser or a mail program.
This has to do with the coding of the application (I think). The problem you have now is that you have these images and expectations that arrived from using one set of color management settings in Photo-PAINT and another in CorelDRAW. Color Management OFF is the worst thing you could do as all and I mean ALL your conversions and display are incorrect.
With the work flow you've discused I would stick to sRGB not sRGB 2.1 or sRGB 2.1black scaled. That's the best you can do when utiizing non-professional viewers mail programs and browsers.
RoyReed, my intension is in fact to place my photos on a website, so it is important they look good in web browsers. I tested the ones that came out of PP X5 after export as JPG and the original ones in Internet Explorer and Firefox. It was the same results as in the built-in Windows 7 Picture Viewer. On the original photos people had glow in their faces, but those exported from PP X5 had that pale look to it. I ended up using a free Photo Editing program (PhotoScape) I had installed on my notebook to make my changes (only resizing and removing red-eye and little more). The results were fine. The saturation and vibrance was preserved as I wanted.
Maybe I will fiddle around with the Color Management settings another time in PP X5. There are thousands of combinations. Unfortunately none of Davids suggestions of combinations succeeded in giving the right output for Web. I don't want to deal with color profiles at all, I just want the colors to come out of PP X5 the same as those that came in - viewed on the same screen of course. I don't think that is too much to ask for.
The fun thing is that when opening a photo in the free photo editing program, the colors were displayed without the saturation on the screen, but when saved/exported they turned out completely right. This was important of course, but not completely satisfying since it makes it more difficult to control the output.
Erik Vestergaard:Internet Explorer and Firefox
This is where things get tricky we must all speak the same language by that I mean discriptive and accurate language. Internet Explorer, means nothing Interner Explorer 9 or 8 or 7 means something same thing with Firefox.
Erik Vestergaard: Unfortunately none of Davids suggestions of combinations succeeded
That's actually a clue because my suggestions using sRGB and by that I mean using sRGB properly ( not sRGB 2.1 oe black scaled) have to work in all browsers, it's why these setting were my first sugestions. If all you rprocesses are correct these setting must work in all browsers even the newer ones that support color management are designed to use an assumed sRGB work flow. This means something is wrong in your process.
Erik Vestergaard:Maybe I will fiddle around with the Color Management settings another time in PP X5. There are thousands of combinations.
No, there is only one that will work, I suspect that there are processes taking place that are either creating images, exporting or importing images with color space changes or embedding false profiles.
When you view an image and it seems saturated that could mean that it was originally in a small color space displayed in a wider color space, I.E srgb displaye din ECI RGB. One that displays muted could mean that the image was created in a wide color space displayed in a small color space, ECI RGB displayed in sRGB.
Please send an image to firstname.lastname@example.org alos send a screen capture of how you thingk it should display.
Also please get me screen captures of your Windows color management settings, and what version sof browsers you're using. I suspect that you've got somethign screwed up somewhere.