Hello!

When I work with large interactive images in PPX4 I get the following error:

I used to work with PP12 and now that I brought a new Computer I also purchased the new PPX4 and installed it on my WinXP x64 System (8GB RAM). While the PP12 only showed around 4GB the first think I wondered about was the fact the the PPX4 recognized 8GB although it is still a 32bit process. I then assigned 95% of that 8GB to the application and started working. Loading the image worked but when I for example tried to increase the paper size the error occures. I suspect PPX4 cannot handle such a large number of objects on such a big picture because when I combine all objects before increasing the paper size it works. Of cause this isn't going to satisfy me. Does anyone know how to solve the problem?

 I would try to assign less virtual memory to the application, although PP can see all your memory it is most likely not able to use all of it, there is no need to assign 95% of system memory to any application, matter of fact Windows might not like you if you leave it with only 5%.

That's right, but since one instance of PPX4 doesn't use more then 4GB eigther way it shouln't matter. However, I tried it at 20% & 40% and the same error occures. When I try to load 2 of these images into one instance of PPX4, the programm gets unstable and the revovery manager pops up.

When I use different instances at 40% mem usage I managed to load around 4GB but then I get "Out of Memory" - naturally. I then set it to 80% and worked simultaneously in 4 instances - as long as I first combine all objects that works fine. I am even able to copy and paste large parts of different pictures to one another. But with a certain number and/or size of objects - "problem accessing memory".

I tried some more things and I think I spotted the real problem here.

Open a new picture with 10.000x10.000 pixels. Use the "line tool" to add some random lines in the bottom right corner of the image. Now take a look on the "document properties" sheet. The "size on disk" should be low - some KB. But the "size in memory" may be over 3GB:

How the *** is that exlainable? In my opinion, this has to be a flaw in programming.

This is how bitmap programs work. When you open a file, it becomes uncompressed, independent of the format it was before.

You also need to consider bit depth. It doesn't matter whether the file opened was a tiff, jpeg, BMP, etc. You are looking at an uncompressed file inside PP, like PS.

RGB white takes up the same amount of RAM as any other RGB color. 24 bits per pixel.

PP doesn't care what the content is, and neither does an uncompressed format such as bmp.

notice how the size on disk and size in memory is basically the same!

This is why it's important for certain cases to reduce bit depth if possible. If you don't need color - change the color mode to grayscale. 2/3rds the bit depth is now out of the equation. Each pixel is now 8 bits. The same file below after changing color model to grayscale becomes 23.8 MB -  1/3 of the RGB file size.

This theory also applies to images imported into CorelDRAW. It doesn't matter that the image may have been a 500 KB JPG. It's now on Draw's page as an uncompressed bitmap. Import 20 hi-res images at large 8"x8" 300 DPI each, and you can see how the DRAW file will get large.

10.000*10.000*24bit=2400000000bit

2400000000bit/8=300000000byte=300Mbyte

The picture in my example at this size and color depth is not 300Mbyte - it is 3 GIGA Byte. How do you explain this?

How may one simple object increase the size in memory of over 800MByte?

And how does it lead the program to give me the error "problem accessing memory" rather then "out of memory"? I hope you don't want to tell me, that all I can get with 8 resp. 4GB RAM is a bunch of lines!

Very easy to explain.

use the line tool as you did, and open the Object Manager. Multiple objects! (layers).

note that each layer spans the size of your document, regardless of what's on that layer. Each layer you make occupies a huge amount of RAM at the pixel dimensions you're using.

painting lines using paintbrush tool on a single layer is a VERRRRRY different thing than creating one new layer with each new line with the line tool!

What kinds of projects are you doing? You could be far better off drawing lines on top of a background bitmap in CorelDRAW, then exporting the job as a composite bitmap when done. Also, you'll have much more flexibility in Draw for creating/moving/coloring/thickening lines, and much smaller working file size.

storke:

10.000*10.000*24bit=2400000000bit

2400000000bit/8=300000000byte=300Mbyte

The picture in my example at this size and color depth is not 300Mbyte - it is 3 GIGA Byte. How do you explain this?

How may one simple object increase the size in memory of over 800MByte?

And how does it lead the program to give me the error "problem accessing memory" rather then "out of memory"? I hope you don't want to tell me, that all I can get with 8 resp. 4GB RAM is a bunch of lines!

Jeff Harrison:

[...] note that each layer spans the size of your document, regardless of what's on that layer. Each layer you make occupies a huge amount of RAM at the pixel dimensions you're using. [...]

Thats my point. The actual information needed to display the exact same image is significantly lower then the bitmap onto which it is rendered. So whats the point in handling bitmap information rather then "compressed" meta data? Geometric objects don't need to be handled as bitmaps because it is much more effective to render them in realtime onto the background layer rather then saving them in a new bitmap layer.

Jeff Harrison:

[...] What kinds of projects are you doing? [...]

In this case, I draw routes onto satellite pictures and label them.

Jeff Harrison:

[...] You could be far better off drawing lines on top of a background bitmap in CorelDRAW, then exporting the job as a composite bitmap when done. Also, you'll have much more flexibility in Draw for creating/moving/coloring/thickening lines, and much smaller working file size. [...]

You are probably right. It's just that I am completely unfamiliar with Draw. :(

Thank you anyways!

Hi Island,

I'm not giving up on you. The learning curve to do what you want in Draw instead of PP is about 3 minutes. Or perhaps less!

you can use the freehand tool tool to Draw from point to point.

The advantages I'd listed before for creating lines are worth repeating:

creating  |  moving  |  coloring  |  thickening

all of these are easier in Draw and offer more flexibility. Watch the movie, I suspect you'll agree.

exporting as PDF retains razor-sharp lines & text unlike any bitmap format you save from PP.

editing text in Draw is 100% easier in Draw than PP.

storke:

You are probably right. It's just that I am completely unfamiliar with Draw. :(

Thank you anyways!

It's not that I don't know about the advantages of vector based graphics. But thanks for the encouragement to try it out - I'll do that! Thanks! :)

This little movie from Jeff shows why this Corel forum is filled with nice people, who likes to help out.
And Foster is right too. If one doenst have a Wacom tablet, its kind of always best to fix with lines for this kind of job in CorelDRAW. Thats how I do it myself when I make infographic´s illustrations. And I have a wacom tablet, but still prefer to do it in CorelDRAW - using my wacom or mouse